Error
  • Error loading Components:
Welcome, Guest
Username Password: Remember me

Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence
(0 viewing) 

TOPIC: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #11

  • tyrstag
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: 2
NP, a lot of people screw it up. You guys can call me Pete, everyone else does.

Yeah, I know you can do long exposure. But I've been in some places where there is absolutely 0 light

Hahaha, thanks! I might take you up on that air guitar, mine is getting a little dusty.

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #12

  • Amanda_O
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 76
  • Karma: 2
Seeing as how you're a techie person can you tell me how to get my digi recorder to load on my laptop and how to convert sound files from audacity to mp3's???

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #13

  • tyrstag
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: 2
Ummmm, sure?
I don't know what kind of recorder you have, but there should be a USB cable to connect it to the PC, it may be an option you have to buy.

The files that the recorder saves are probably already MP3 and you shouldn't have to convert them.

To convert an audio file in Audacity, you have to download the "Lame MP3" encoder. Pretty sure there's a link right in Audacity to download it. Unzip the file to some folder, then go into audacity settings and tell it where you saved the file. The option to convert files to MP3 will then just show up.

Hope that helped . . .contact me offline if you need more help. tyrstag (at) gmail.com

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #14

  • Amanda_O
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 76
  • Karma: 2
okay thanks. The recorder has a built in usb connector. It seems like the program doesn't want to run but I think it's just me and lack of know how

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #15

tyrstag wrote:
First off, let me explain that I am not a skeptic. I have seen too much unexplainable stuff in my life to not be a believer. I just have a big problem with some things that are claimed to be evidence, but have perfectly reasonable scientific explanations.


I would agree, one must be very careful what one calls proof. Evidence is just a collection of data, does not really mean its valid or invalid. It just means its empirical data which has been collected. The collection of that data as a whole then must lead towards proof. I personally don't think any one piece of data by itself can constitute proof. But rather an overwhelming preponderance of positive data which can then collectively increase the probability of having found something valid.

You should be skeptical of ANY digital evidence. The reason is that we live in an analog world.


On this I would have to disagree. Evidence can be invalid or valid independent of whether its digital or analog. Actually in its raw form many digital evidence can far surpass any analog evidence. I do understand the concept of artifacts and loss due to compression and other digital factors. But as long as you keep those factors in mind when you select your means of collecting the data, and factor in the level of error caused by those the data can be every bit as valid.

For a moment consider this. A regular chemical photograph taken of something evidential. The same effects (motion blur, ghosting, lack of definition, etc) can effect the analog image just as they can the digital images. The same distortion you get by zooming in on a digital, you get by zooming in on an analog. This is true for video as well. And with audio evidence, recording on an old style tape recorder can actually lead to more distortion and background noise than their digital counterparts.

Also as far as purposeful manipulation of data goes (faking images), anyone who's ever had a real dark room will tell you that its just as easy (sometimes easier) to fake an analog image as it is with a digital one. I would not discount digital forms in any way. Actually digital images give you some internal information which can in some cases lend credibility to the photograph.

Digital images have embedded data which can tell the source of the image, time of day, and even the camera settings used when taking the image. Yes, this can be faked or duplicated but now you're greatly reducing the number of people who have the knowledge to do that.

As long as no compression is used on the original, a digital image, video, sound can be as good if not better than its counterpart analog. The true key is to know the capabilities and limitations of the equipment you are using. Not all equipment is created equal. Also if you do any processing on data, keep the original and know how the processing works. You MUST know how any image or sound processing will effect the validity of the data. Data integrity is #1 when it comes to wanting to use it as scientific proof.

Hardware malfunction: In computer graphics, visual artifacts may be generated whenever a hardware component (eg. processor, memory chip, cabling) malfunctions, causing data corruption. Malfunction may be caused by physical damage, overheating (sometimes due to GPU overclocking), etc. Common types of hardware artifacts are texture corruption and T-vertices in 3D graphics, and pixelization in MPEG compressed video.


True, but you also have to keep in mind that hardware level corruption generally appears much more dramatic than artifacts in images. Generally hardware level corruption will cause your computer to lock up. Most systems have error correction or detection. What you see mostly in images as the T-vertices is when an image is unconverted. Basically you're taking one pixel, the smallest dot which is defined within any image. And you are taking that dot and multiplying it to make it bigger. So one dot becomes 10-200 dots. So lets look at an example, 1 dot will become 20x20 dots. This in turn will make a large square in the color and brightness that the original dot was. If you look at such a picture it will look almost like a mozaic with many squares of colors. To reduce this effect some up-conversion software makes a best attempt at smoothing those edges. It does this by averaging the colors with those around them and then creating a soft transition. Somtimes even going out farther and looking for the edge of that color and creating a shape based off of it. Now you've started creating a phantom shape where before there was none. But again remember the computer is GUESSING based on the surroundings.

Although this entire process is great for finding detail in images that simply do not have the detail, the important factor is that its a best guess. And so the level of error starts to increase dramatically as you let the comptuer up-convert a smaller image into a larger one. There are other processes which induce levels of error. But to get a true idea of the level of error that any such process can induce you have to have a firm knowledge of what the computer does internally during image processing or enhancement.

Compression: Controlled amounts of unwanted information may be generated as a result of the use of lossy compression techniques. One such case is the artifacts seen in JPEG and MPEG compression algorithms.


I'm with you there, 100%! Compression is evil and although its great for making an image, sound or video into a more manageable size, it irreversibly loses data. If you then take that image and try to get the data back, you're now inducing error upon error. ALWAYS keep the original image, and save it with the least possible compression. I store all my images with no compression, my audio with minimal compression, and my video in raw form. (Makes for huge files)
Providing Support for Paranormal Teams
Ghosts & Haunts Community - - Unification of Efforts

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #16

Hey, I agree with you in small pieces ..
First .. If the paranormal exists, only the''digital have little mistakes''that make it look as you say so, but do not confuse it with digital flash flash electromagnetic .. The error is: Flash low quality. But after the flash you see that if there is something strange in the room among others .. Well, thanks to that little flash failure, you can see supernatural material .. Because some people can not see these small objects supernatural
Second: The orbs, paranormal or other personnel .. If you go in the day, but not be seen because there is light, be light, the flash is not efficient to not be efficient no such errors come to light .. Well I hope I've entente .. I have other theories rather complicated .. When you want to talk ... regards

-Gabriel

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #17

Amanda_O wrote:
okay thanks. The recorder has a built in usb connector. It seems like the program doesn't want to run but I think it's just me and lack of know how


If you want to start a remote support session, I can probably help you with that. I use Audacity myself and for it to work with MP3 files you have to load a lamemp3 library which is not included.

As for the recorders don't use a program they simply appear as a drive on your computer.
Providing Support for Paranormal Teams
Ghosts & Haunts Community - - Unification of Efforts

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #18

  • tyrstag
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: 2
@ Crystalcross - You're missing one huge piece of information. ALL digital video is compressed! MPEG, JPEG, MP3 ARE compression algorithms.

MPEGs are the worst culprit, your camera in it's highest quality setting compresses MPEG by 15-30 times it's original size by using a lossy compression! Meaning in order to compress the file, it throws data that it sees as "unneeded" away. (You know, areas that it thinks are too dark or too light. Stuff that we would want to keep but the average videographer doesn't care about.) You increase the compression amount and recording time available by lowering the quality and throwing away more data. Unless you have an older camera that saves in the uncompressed DV tape format.

Jpeg is also a lossy compression, most Digital Still cameras use JPEG compression by default. You MAY have a setting to use RAW or TIFF images instead. Those are still both compressed formats, but they use Lossless compression, so the original data is still there, but the images are MUCH larger than JPEG.

MP3 is also a lossy compression (MP3 is short for MPEG Layer 3 Audio, and uses the same compression algorithms as the video). Listen to the difference from an audio CD (RAW WAV format), then listen to the best quality MP3 of the same song. You'll notice that the MP3 is missing the high and low frequencies, stuff that the compression says is not what humans actually listen to, we generally only listen to the mid range of audio.

So, all-in-all yes, compression is evil. But it's there in digital video/audio even if you don't know it.

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #19

Actually MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 use very little compression. They don't use the motion compression and also do not use the shading compressions which MPEG3, MOV, and other formats use. Also MJPEG compression can be set to use very little compression. It uses streams of JPEG images strung together. And JPEG has the ability to limit compression to simple RLE (similar to zip, a loss-less compression).

JPEG compression in lower quality mode loses lots of data, but in high quality mode is very similar to TIFF which is a no-loss encoding scheme.

On the audio side PCM encoding has no loss. Even MPEG3 as long as your sampling rate is high enough the loss is at such a frequency that it does not effect the data integrity. You mainly want to ensure that 20hz to 22khz is lossless. Loss in the 22-40khz range will not effect you hearing anything unless there is clipping due to over-driving which can happen even in the analog world.
Providing Support for Paranormal Teams
Ghosts & Haunts Community - - Unification of Efforts

Re: Reason I don’t like most Digital Evidence 14 years, 1 month ago #20

  • osty
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: 2
I think one of the things that I have the hardest time putting any "faith" of showing evidence in is the Ghost Box. I find it hard to take a device that is suppose to broadcast voices place it on scan and say that the voices that come out are ghostly voices. I don't know if anyone here uses a ghost box and sorry if I offend someone who does but I just find it to be very iffy paranormal activity.

I do agree with the photos of orbs, I rarely have seen a photo of an orb where I have not looked at it and written it off as a reaction of something from the flash.
Time to create page: 0.77 seconds


Protected by R Antispam

escort bayan muğla aydın escort bayan escort bayan çanakkale balıkesir escort bayan escort tekirdağ bayan escort bayan gebze escort bayan mersin buca escort bayan edirne escort bayan